Session 3

(These are the notes represent the discussions from the 01/010/03 session; it is intended to represent the conversation and discussion to the best of our ability, it is not a verbatim transcription).

For the Union:
Jason Evans: worker
Holly Krig: worker
Bill Pearson, President
Bernie Hesse, Organizer
Jennifer Christensen, Representative

For the Company:
Maria Zachman
Mark Shiffmann, Attorney at Law
James Lathrop, Director HR

BP: Just a note before we start - Under articles of agreement change �company� to �employer�

MS: I did check my notes I did missed a whole line in the managements rights clause: �transfer within store, demote and promote, discipline or discharge employees for just cause�.

BP: After negotiations, I like to get the committee�s perception of what went on. It is always revealing to hear the feed back from people who haven�t been involved in the process before. There has been initial disappointment in your response to articles 3,4,5. We will respond - some with counter proposals, some not.

There is some surprise that you rejected 3.B (workers rights). One of the things we have seen at borders is that you hire smart people who like customers, books (etc.) while there will be issues we bump heads over, it doesn�t mean that we can�t work together. We will continue to cling to some kind of structure, it doesn�t have to be the exact verbiage, including (the concepts in) B. Mark (Shiffmann) can continue saying it isn�t a mandatory subject of bargaining.
Article 3
3.A.) T.A. 01/10/03
3.B.) We will come back with language
3.C.) T.A. 01/10/03
3.D.) I need to know the structure,

MS: We post jobs throughout the company. As a company it is a very common practice for employees to move up beyond the individual store. There are lots of people at lots of stores with unusual backgrounds.

JE: Does borders take outside applications at the same time as postings?

JL: Yes, we may not recruit from out side but we do take applications.

BP: There is a concern that as a Union store it will exclude some employees from promotions.

You saw that we had included language for continuing education?

JL: We have in store training. There is also a Borders foundation scholarships are offered, now offered to a maximum of 25 per year. We have a third party decide, because it is a competitive scholarship. We are in the process of putting together the information for next year�s round.

BP: This wasn�t an obligation to put some kind of continuing education in play. We are interested in ensuring people aren�t excluded for promotional opportunities.

MS: You�ve given the classic example; the person driving the organizing drive was promoted to management.

BP:
3.E.) We will propose one day a year (for community service) and you will see that in our proposal when we come back.

Article 4.
4.1 (economic)
We spent some time talking about the 35-hour workweek. (4.3) It is foreign to me but it is common to Borders. You have created the opportunity to add to that week. But for a full timer that has, for a long period of time, worked more than the 35, to lose 2 hours when you are only making $9 per hour is significant. One reason that people join unions is so that seniority means something. We will come back with a proposal that as people work up through and get hours, they can retain them- by seniority.

4.2 is structural we will get to that when we get to economics
4.4.B we have contracts that have 4 tens (ten hour days), 3 twelves (twelve hour days) with no overtime. We will bring language. On a basic workday we will have the 8 hour days. In the settings where someone wants more hours in a day - whatever works for the employee works for us.

4.4.C I think we can work through this we were okay until you changed may to will.
4.5 we need to get more input from employees.

MS: I don�t think it is something we would normally schedule.

MZ: We work with the employee on that.

BP: The two consecutive days off actually made sense. Some people could have Tues/Wed off and have to work Sat/Sun.

When are your stores the busiest?

JL: In most store its weekends, then evenings, then days.

HK: Again the point of contention is that while it is true that while one person would like one weekend day and one weekday off others would prefer 5 consecutive days of work. People have different needs. I think there is room for both.

MS: You are going to have trouble with guarantees in scheduling. We do our best to meet the requests of our employees. This is one of those areas where if it ain�t broke don�t fix it.

BP: We will, as a fairly creative group, put together some language on this issue.
You struck (lined out) the line �shall normally be required to work more than two (2) night shifts��

MS: We do not want any guarantees. Store needs probably won�t change, but employee needs may. We don�t think this will benefit the employees.

BP: We will come back with a modification of that (proposal.)

Huge numbers of unemployment change the employer�s perspective on hiring. The contention at Sears today is that the goal is to get rid of the old-timers and hire a cheaper workforce. The economic work force is driving down wages and creating a worker surplus.

JL: Demographically in two or three years we will be in the situation where we will be hiring � after the baby boomers retire.

BP: I think that the boomers will be looking for jobs in places like borders.

JL: I have one comment to that, again, I think it is something we don�t appear to do. Again, it is the Sears employees who have that complaint. This is a two-year contract, why do we need to address that if we are not doing it?

BP: Again, I am not suggesting that you do, I just negotiate for (those issues)

4.5. 2nd paragraph T.A. 01/10/03 10:47 a.m.

4.5 3rd paragraph - We need to work through some other language

4.6 T.A. 10:48 01/10/03

4.7 T.A. 10:49 01/10/03 first paragraph

5:1 T.A. 10:59 01/10/03

BP: 5:2 I need to understand if they are reduced in hours do they maintain their full time status?

JL: If you average over 35 in 12 weeks

MS: Once they�ve worked PT for 12 weeks, it affects benefits.

BP: so the employee still maintains recall rights?

MS: Yes, only there benefits are efected

BP: The way you described contingent employees yesterday was more palatable.
If you started with �employees who do not work on a weekly basis..�

MS: Do you want to suggest language? This may be a place to use �normally� - they may work weekly during the holidays

BP: Here is what I am saying. It is Christmas, I am out of school for four weeks. I am a part-timer working limited hours and they say I want hours and you say no I am goin to give them to a temp. seasonal, what we are saying is that

MS: With respect to the temp seasonal, the only time we would hire a temp seasonal instead of giving them to a pt. Is if we didn�t know about their availability. Why?

BP: I don�t know. That is why I don�t think the language is so damming (5.3).

JL: Our concern is if we schedule people more than 35 hours, we run into the issue of unscheduled overtime.

BP: The need to fix unscheduled overtime has resulted in scheduling people less than 40 hours. When a worker suddenly loses hours it has an effect. Now if every day they were schedule 38 and every day they get 20 minutes, they�d make it up.

MS: It (over-time) is under control now.

BP: But it is at the cost of two hours of work.

JL: Well, even unscheduled hours are an uncontrolled/unbudgeted time. What we have done is make sure it doesn�t go into overtime. Obviously there are cases where it does.

MS: Take a crack at some language.

BP:
6.1 I will come back with a counter
6.2 I have a note that says no. Oh, no wonder I wrote this so big. We are really interested in seniority meaning something. I am not interested in negotiating over management determining who is qualified. This is going to be a big issue.

MS: Our position is that we want someone who is more qualified. If they were equally qualified, we would take the most senior.

BP: How do you determine the most qualified bookseller?

JL: Well you could have performance and disciplinary issues-

MS: It is much more an issue when you are looking at different functions, when you have cafes and music. It is not an issue here.

BP: We have that situation in the grocery stores with department heads, where being promoted to that positions is at the discretion of management. I have this debate all the time. For a person to be in a critical position you have a right.

MS: Supervisors are the only positions you can bid up to. If you want full time you ask for it, if the hours are there you get it.

BP: Then the discussion becomes, what if two people want fulltime � two people � you�ve got to wait until there are hours, but who gets it?

MZ: I would look at their performance record.

BP: That is the answer then for why we are proposing language.

BP:
6.3 We agree with your change but we are not sure what the classifications are going to be. You said within classifications.

MS: I think we talked about it yesterday-
I will put down T.A. 1/10/03 pending classifications

B.P.
T.A. 6.3 1/10/03 01/10/03 11:27
T.A. 6.4 (pending agreement on 6.2) 01/10/03 11:28
T.A. 6.5 okay but we still don�t have the classifications. T.A. 01/10/31 11:31

Article 9 I am just leaving open now.
Article 10 I am okay with E going into C
But I am going to add back in the sentence you struck in E.

MS: I think you need a few other words. It should really say �not withstanding� are you going to provide language?

BP: You are going to clean it (Article 10) up, why don�t you take a whack at it.
Maybe we can get rid of a �letter" here

T.A. 10.3 � 10.6) 01/10/03 11:34

BP: Health insurance � we were trying to figure out how much people were paying.

JL: I believe it is broken out on their checks.
I believe it is spread over the twenty-six payperiods

MS: We have given you the employees� share.

BP: I haven�t seen that

MS: The total cost is what we don�t know yet. I thought we had given you the employee cost. If not, I apologize.

BP: In our Health Care Plan, insurance is also on the part-timers. By the time we factor in the employers costs, often the cost is cheaper even with the inclusion of the part-timers than what the employers pay themselves.

MS: The part-timers only have coverage on themselves?

BP: Yes.

That is about it. What do you think we should do from here?

MS: You haven�t really given us a proposal yet.

BP: Well I can�t until I have a chance to look at all of this.

MS: Then we are done.

BP: As I said, I expected to be done early today. We will meet at 9:30 next Thursday (January 16, 2003).